Science Chats Forum

online.education · #1 03-03-2008, 01:04 AM

Question about 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th dimensions.

1st dimension -> Line
2nd dimension -> Square, circle, etc.
3rd dimension -> Space
4th dimension -> Time
5th dimension -> Light? Gravity? You know, the dimension that Einstein proved mathematically exists

...
...
...
...
...

11th dimension -> E-Theory predicts

My question is, 'Where are 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th dimensions?'

TVDinner · #2 03-03-2008, 09:58 AM

is there an article or site backing this info. I would like to read additional info about this.

Judge · #3 03-03-2008, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by online.education

Question about 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th dimensions.

1st dimension -> Line
2nd dimension -> Square, circle, etc.
3rd dimension -> Space
4th dimension -> Time
5th dimension -> Light? Gravity? You know, the dimension that Einstein proved mathematically exists

...
...
...
...
...

11th dimension -> E-Theory predicts

My question is, 'Where are 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th dimensions?'

Not sure what E-theory is. But I know M-theory predicts an 11 dimension. If you meant M-theory predicts. Then according to M-theory there are 10 spatial dimensions and one time dimension. I don't think anyone really knows what the 6th - 10th dimensions look like all M-theory knows is that they store matter just like the 1st - 5th dimensions do. If memory serves the 11th dimension is believed to cover all matter in the universe. According to M-theory the universe is made up of strings not particles. These strings are like a garden hose and the 11th dimension covers the surface and inside of the hose or rather the string.

online.education · #4 03-03-2008, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judge

Not sure what E-theory is. But I know M-theory predicts an 11 dimension. If you meant M-theory predicts. Then according to M-theory there are 10 spatial dimensions and one time dimension.

Yes, that's what I meant M-theory. If I remember correctly, there were 5 different strings up until mid-90s. Ed Witten proved that they were essentially the same; it's just that, if they are observed in a lower dimension, then they look like they are totally different. However, if you follow Ed Witten's explanation or rather M-theory, you have to believe that there is the 11th dimension. That's fine. But I started wondering where all those 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th dimensions came from.

Judge · #5 03-04-2008, 03:12 PM

I made a mistake in my last post. The five most popular Superstring theories each only require 10 dimensions not 11 dimensions. Only M-theory which unites the five super string theories requires 11 dimensions I speculate that that extra dimension has something to do with their being multiple univeres but thats speculation. Sorry for the mistake. Also only dimensions 1-3 are spatial, dimensions 4-9 are Calabi-Yau shaped dimensions and the 10th dimension is the time dimension. Calabi-Yau shaped dimensions I'm not sure how to explian it so here is what I read on them

Quote:

In 1919, Polish mathematician Theodor Kaluza proposed that the existence of a fourth spatial dimension might allow the linking of general relativity and electromagnetic theory. The idea, later refined by the Swedish mathematician Oskar Klein, was that space consisted of both extended and curled-up dimensions. The extended dimensions are the three spatial dimensions that we're familiar with, and the curled-up dimension is found deep within the extended dimensions and can be thought of as a circle. Experiments later showed that Kaluza and Klein's curled-up dimension did not unite general relativity and electromagnetic theory as originally hoped, but decades later, string theorists found the idea useful, even necessary.
The mathematics used in superstring theory requires at least 10 dimensions. That is, for the equations that describe superstring theory to begin to work out—for the equations to connect general relativity to quantum mechanics, to explain the nature of particles, to unify forces, and so on—they need to make use of additional dimensions. These dimensions, string theorists believe, are wrapped up in the curled-up space first described by Kaluza and Klein.
To extend the curled-up space to include these added dimensions, imagine that spheres replace the Kaluza-Klein circles. Instead of one added dimension we have two if we consider only the spheres' surfaces and three if we take into account the space within the sphere. That's a total of six dimensions so far. So where are the others that superstring theory requires?
It turns out that, before superstring theory existed, two mathematicians, Eugenio Calabi of the University of Pennsylvania and Shing-Tung Yau of Harvard University, described six-dimensional geometrical shapes that superstring theorists say fit the bill for the kind of structures their equations call for. If we replace the spheres in curled-up space with these Calabi-Yau shapes, we end up with 10 dimensions: three spatial, plus the six of the Calabi-Yau shapes, plus one of time.
If superstring theory turns out to be correct, the idea of a world consisting of 10 or more dimensions is one that we'll need to become comfortable with. But will there ever be an explanation or a visual representation of higher dimensions that will truly satisfy the human mind? The answer to this question may forever be no. Not unless some four-dimensional life-form pulls us from our three-dimensional Spaceland and gives us a view of the world from its perspective.

heres the link for that http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/dimensions.html

I would also suggest reading this

Quote:

Our physical space is observed to have only three large dimensions — and taken together with time as the fourth dimension — a physical theory must take this into account. However, nothing prevents a theory from including more than 4 dimensions, per se. In the case of string theory, consistency requires spacetime to have 10, 11 or 26 dimensions. The conflict between observation and theory is resolved by making the unobserved dimensions compactified.
Our minds have difficulty visualizing higher dimensions because we can only move in three spatial dimensions. One way of dealing with this limitation is not to try to visualize higher dimensions at all, but just to think of them as extra numbers in the equations that describe the way the world works. This opens the question of whether these 'extra numbers' can be investigated directly in any experiment (which must show different results in 1, 2, or 2+1 dimensions to a human scientist). This, in turn, raises the question of whether models that rely on such abstract modeling (and potentially impossibly huge experimental apparatus) can be considered 'scientific.' Six-dimensional Calabi-Yau shapes can account for the additional dimensions required by superstring theory.The theory states that every point in space (or whatever we considered as point) is in fact a very small 'sphere'(better say manifold) with a diameter of 10−33 m
Superstring theory is not the first theory to propose extra spatial dimensions, the Kaluza-Klein theory did already. Modern string theory relies on the mathematics of folds, knots, and topology, which was largely developed after Kaluza and Klein, and has made physical theories relying on extra dimensions much more credible.

heres the link for that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superst...tra_dimensions

and here is a page on the 11th dimension.

Quote:

The 11th dimension is a characteristic of space-time that has been proposed as a possible answer to questions that arise in string theory/superstring theory. The theory of superstrings involves the existence of nine dimensions of space and one dimension of time (a total of 10 dimensions). According to this notion, we observe only three spatial dimensions and one time dimension because the other six spatial dimensions are "curled up" or "compactified". According to superstring theory, all of the elementary particles in the universe are composed of vibrating (also see oscillation), one-dimensional mathematical objects known as strings. The theory does not explicitly state what the strings are made of or where they come from; rather, they are proposed as geometric ideals. Each string has a length of only 10-35 meters, many times smaller than the diameter of the nucleus of an atom. Any given subatomic particle (or hadron) is made of a string that vibrates and rotates at the speed of light. A particular hadron gets its unique identity from the manner in which the string rotates and vibrates according to the dynamics of Einstein's theory of general relativity. The frequency of vibration corresponds to the mass of the particle.
The nagging question remains, "Where do the strings come from?" Also, there are five different versions of superstring theory that explain the way subatomic particles behave. Are all five versions correct, or are some correct and others wrong? Some physicists have suggested that there exists an 11th dimension, which is compactified like the other six spatial dimensions we do not directly observe. Superstring theory with the inclusion of the 11th dimension is sometimes called M-Theory (also see Introduction to M-theory or the theory of everything).

and heres the link for that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_dimension

online.education · #6 03-05-2008, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judge

Also only dimensions 1-3 are spatial, dimensions 4-9 are Calabi-Yau shaped dimensions and the 10th dimension is the time dimension. Calabi-Yau shaped dimensions I'm not sure how to explian it so here is what I read on them.

Ok, so this is what I need to study next (among other things) ...

Noodles · #7 03-17-2008, 05:09 AM

Interesting, thanks

Trulyana · #8 03-18-2008, 07:41 AM

I wish I could share what I know, but I can't. It'll be imposing, through every sense.

online.education · #9 03-18-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trulyana

I wish I could share what I know, but I can't. It'll be imposing, through every sense.

There is a documentary titled, "The Elegant Universe." This is about three hours long. If you are interested in this subject, check it out. It'll give you a rough overview of the subject.

Trulyana · #10 03-19-2008, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by online.education

There is a documentary titled, "The Elegant Universe." This is about three hours long. If you are interested in this subject, check it out. It'll give you a rough overview of the subject.

Thaks, for the suggestion. I know enough about this, that'll probably blow all your brains in parts.

Science Chats Forum

Search

Navigation

Sponsored links

Cool sites